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Gwarm Sabo (Far Orbit Project)

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Gwarm Sabo (Far Orbit Project)

Postby aclarkbr90 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:23 pm

Gwarm Sabo, Hired Gun (Heavy)

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Profile

Race: Weequay
Career: Hired Gun
Specialization: Heavy
Motivation: Reputation
Obligation (20): Score to Settle (Thakba the Hutt)
Post Creation Experience: 0/20

Attributes
Brawn: 3, Agility: 4, Intellect 1,
Cunning: 3, Willpower: 2, Presence 1

Derived Attributes
WT: 13, ST: 11, Soak: 5
Defense: 0, Encumbrance: 9/12

Skills
Athletics 1
Brawl 1
Resilience 2
Vigilance 1
Perception 1
Gunnery 1
Ranged (Heavy) 2

Talents
Heavy
Barrage 1 (Add 1 pt of damage on ranged heavy attacks at long or extreme range)
Burly 1 (Reduce any weapons cumbersome and encumbrance rating by 1)
Brace 1 (May take the Brace maneuver to remove 1 setback due to environment)

Personal Gear
Armor: Padded Armor
Weapons
Heavy Blaster Rifle with forearm grip, Ranged (Heavy), Damage 10, Range [Long], Crit 3, Auto-fire, Cumbersome 2 (due to Burly), Reduced difficulty when engaged (Burly), Hard points 3/4
Vibroknuckles, Brawl, Damage 4, Range [Engaged], Crit 2, Pierce 1, Vicious 1, Disorient 1, Knockdown
Plasma Grenades (2), Ranged (Light), Damage 12, Range [Short], Crit 3, Blast 10, Limited Ammo 1
Blaster Pistol, Ranged (Light), Damage 6, Range [Medium], Crit 3, Stun setting

Comlink, Stimpacks (2), Backpack, Extra Power Packs, 7 credits

Background
Gwarm was an enforcer for Thakba the Hutt. He was embarrassed and ruined. He has since joined up with the crew of the Far Orbit

He grew to hate the Hutts, the Empire, and anyone who takes what is not theirs. Strength, not cunning or political tricks, should rule the day. Gwarm supports planetary independence and choice, and thus indirectly supports the rebellion. He cares nothing for their ideals, but believes that each planet should have the right to control itself.

Description
Height: 6'0"
Weight: 205 lbs.
Build: Stocky, muscular
Attire: Heavy padded armor. Well worn.
Description: Gwarm has two large gashes in his right leg due slashing wounds from the Nexu he battled. He looks fairly rugged, even for the leathery skin Weequay. He is a good bit bulkier than typical for his species. He wears thick, padded armor and is rarely seen without his energy rifle, which he refers to as Bigrig.

Gwarm is ambitious. He wants a reputation for himself as a fearsome warrior.
Last edited by aclarkbr90 on Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Gwarm Sabo (Far Orbit Project)

Postby aclarkbr90 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:24 pm

Ok - here is character number 2. Gwarm Sabo, hired gun with a score to settle against the Hutts. Interested in enlisting in the Far Orbit's infantry.
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Re: Gwarm Sabo (Far Orbit Project)

Postby ShadoWarrior » Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:42 pm

The Heavy Blaster Rifle and Plasma Grenades are not allowed. They are not standard gear on the ship. Plasma grenades are hard to get (rarity-6) and beyond your ability to have gotten before joining the ship's crew. The heavy blaster rifle is also rarity-6. It's somewhat easier to lay hands on, but its cost would completely use up all of his earned money (1500), and that's without any attachments/mods.

The vibroknuckles (which cost 350 credits of the 500 you had during basic creation) do not have Disorient 1 or Knockdown. The other items (armor, pistol, misc) are items that the ship does carry, so having them on your sheet is okay.
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Re: Gwarm Sabo (Far Orbit Project)

Postby aclarkbr90 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:42 pm

Per ffg rules, all brawl attacks have disorient 1 and knockdown qualities (unless the weapon's specifications are better). See EotE page 211. They can also normally be used to deal wounds or strain, though vibroknucklers specify that they can only be used for wounds.

What are the rules on starting equipment? Normally you would be able to pick up anything that isn't restricted as starting equipment, regardless of rarity. Is rarity 5 ok? Is this listed somewhere in the house rules?

And yeah, looks like I messed up on the equipment and the bonus XP - didn't mean to double dip. Can I just take the bonus starting credits for the obligation rather than the bonus XP (since increasing willpower isn't really important for him).
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Re: Gwarm Sabo (Far Orbit Project)

Postby aclarkbr90 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:01 pm

Ok, I think this resolves it. For +10 obligation, I took 5 starting XP and 1000 credits.

Here is how I spent my XP & free ranks:

Weequay: Free rank of resilience
Hired Gun: Athletics, Brawl, Resilience, and Vigilance
Heavy: Gunnery and Ranged (Heavy)

95 Starting XP:
Agility +2 (70)
Ranged Heavy +1 (10)
Barrage (5)
Brace (10)

After creation XP (20):
Perception +1 (5)
Burly (15)

Equipment 1500 starting credits, 7 rolled credits, 1500 credits (3007 in total):
Heavy blaster rifle 1500
Forearm grip: 250
Padded Armor: 500
Vibroknucklers: 350
Comlink: 25
Stimpacks (2): 50
Backpack: 50
Extra Powerpack: 25
Total: 3000 (7 remaining)

If its still an issue because technically the 1507 credits are post-creation and thus more item restrictions, then I can take away 5 XP to get an additional 1500 credits.
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Re: Gwarm Sabo (Far Orbit Project)

Postby ShadoWarrior » Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:20 pm

aclarkbr90 wrote:Per ffg rules, all brawl attacks have disorient 1 and knockdown qualities (unless the weapon's specifications are better). See EotE page 211. They can also normally be used to deal wounds or strain, though vibroknucklers specify that they can only be used for wounds.

Indeed you are correct. I learned something. Thank you.

aclarkbr90 wrote:What are the rules on starting equipment? Normally you would be able to pick up anything that isn't restricted as starting equipment, regardless of rarity.

Actually, per FFG RAW that is not correct. That is why money is so limited, and so important, in many games. Some GMs (very few) ignore the rarity of items. Many increase the amount of starting money, but I have never seen, or heard of, anyone allowing unlimited funding.

aclarkbr90 wrote:Is rarity 5 ok? Is this listed somewhere in the house rules?

What you're restricted to was actually discussed in a post in the OOC a great many months before you joined, so unless you dug through the entire thread you would have missed it. I've already mentioned the 1500 credits of earned cash. And the 1d100 end-of-creation pocket cash roll. On top of this you can have any item that would normally be found on an Imperial warship. This includes most of the items on your gear list: the armor, the blaster pistol, and all of the miscellaneous items such as comlinks, etc.

Vibroweapons, like the knuckles, are not standard gear. Hence you have to pay for them out of your own pocket. Plasma grenades are not an item that you would have been allowed to carry into StarForge station (even shadowports have some rules), and they're not something Imperial warships stock, thus nixed. Heavy rifles are also not standard inventory. And their rarity is too high for you to buy on your own before you join the crew.

Other items that might not be stocked on the ship, you could buy so long as it's unrestricted and rarity-5 or less. Anything 6+ and/or restricted will have to wait until you join the crew and either go back into the station and try to find it yourself, or you ask the quartermaster PC (Lieutenant Dune) to get for you.

aclarkbr90 wrote:And yeah, looks like I messed up on the equipment and the bonus XP - didn't mean to double dip. Can I just take the bonus starting credits for the obligation rather than the bonus XP (since increasing willpower isn't really important for him).

I thought that you raised Will so that your Vigilance checks would be better, since you are not permitted to increase characteristics during play except for getting the Dedication talent (which is better used on your primary characteristic) or having cybernetics installed (which can't improve all of the characteristics, and Will is one of those that can't be cyber-tweaked). But if you really want to keep Will at 2 and using the XP for other things, that's your prerogative. But since I already told you (again) that you can't buy some of the expensive things that you want, at least not yet, trading Obligation XP for cash is ill-advised. It's way, way easier to get money than XP.
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Re: Gwarm Sabo (Far Orbit Project)

Postby aclarkbr90 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:29 pm

Will heavy weapons ever be permitted on the ship? This character would definitely be building toward a heavy repeating blaster as a primary weapon, since the Heavy's talents are all focused on cumbersome weapons. If that's simply not permitted on the Far Orbit then there really isn't any reason to play Gwarm.
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Re: Gwarm Sabo (Far Orbit Project)

Postby ShadoWarrior » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:37 pm

Yes, they will be permitted. One of the other PCs already has one. The restriction is temporary. Your problem isn't in owning it, it's in buying it before you join the crew.
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Re: Gwarm Sabo (Far Orbit Project)

Postby aclarkbr90 » Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:36 am

I've been digging through the equipment from as many of the books that I can lay my hands on, and as far as I can tell there isn't any weapon that would actually use most of the Heavy's talents. The weapon would need to have a cumbersome rating (for Burly), have long/extreme range (for Barrage), and use Ranged (Heavy) or Gunnery. Ideally, it would have auto-fire (for Rain of Death) but that's fairly far down the tree. There are plenty of weapons that are within my budget and are not restricted (for example, the BlasTech DH-X, the standard Heavy Blaster Rifle, the Weequay Blaster Lance, Vodran Hunting Rifle, or the Sand Panther Hunting Rifle). However, none of these are permitted based on the rarity-5 limitation.

Actually, per FFG RAW that is not correct. That is why money is so limited, and so important, in many games. Some GMs (very few) ignore the rarity of items. Many increase the amount of starting money, but I have never seen, or heard of, anyone allowing unlimited funding.


I didn't mean unlimited funding. You can see that I tracked my expenses to only spend the starting cash. I said that the only equipment that you aren't allowed to purchase during character creation are the restricted items. There is not normally a rarity limit during character creation, which is what is confusing me. See EotE page 97. The importance of rarity normally kicks in only after creation. If the issue is that you want me to only spend my 1500 true starting credits based on creation rules, and then the additional 1507 based on post creation rules, then I'll just switch around my obligation so that I use the full bonus on credits to cover the rarer items. Does that work? If you could link me to something with clearer guidelines on your house rules for equipment, it would make this a lot easier.

Or if you could propose some sort of armament that would play to Gwarm's strengths, I'd appreciate it. I'm just having trouble finding anything based on the rarity limitation.

Plasma grenades are not an item that you would have been allowed to carry into StarForge station (even shadowports have some rules).


Why would plasma grenades in particular be banned? Are all grenades banned? SWRPG uses the restricted mechanic to indicate which items are generally illegal. Plasma grenades are not illegal. Heavy Frags, thermal detonators, inferno grenades, and concussion grenades are the only generally illegal weapons. Similarly, Heavy Blaster Rifles are likewise not an illegal item. It surprises me that a Shadowport would be more restrictive than standard Imperial rules. Obviously, they wouldn't allow open carry, but most spaceports would have basic security measures for the secure transport of deadly weapons. Most likely this would include minor disassembly or deactivation, secure packaging, and transport through anti-explosive containers. The added costs of the security review for the rifle and the grenades could explain why Gwarm's d100 starting cash is so low (I rolled a 7 :( ).
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Re: Gwarm Sabo (Far Orbit Project)

Postby ShadoWarrior » Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:04 pm

Please read my entire reply (perhaps more than once) before you respond, so that you'll be calmer when you do and understand that I'm not trying to be confrontational. I'm honestly trying to work with you. But I'm also not going to make exceptions to how this game is run just to suit a single player or a single character concept.

aclarkbr90 wrote:I've been digging through the equipment from as many of the books that I can lay my hands on, and as far as I can tell there isn't any weapon that would actually use most of the Heavy's talents.

You picked the career and specialization. You're welcome to change it if you feel that it doesn't do what you want/expect it to. Just because a game company writes something doesn't mean it's well thought out, or that it will fit into every game that GMs run.

aclarkbr90 wrote:However, none of these are permitted based on the rarity-5 limitation.

It's typical that players do not get the gear they really want until they've spent time playing in the game. Depending on how rare or powerful the item, it could be quite some time. I think that you're also perhaps missing out on what's important, which is the design of the character and then roleplaying him. Toys are just that, objects. They're disposable and replaceable, and are not what the game is about. Storytelling is.

aclarkbr90 wrote:There is not normally a rarity limit during character creation, which is what is confusing me. See EotE page 97. The importance of rarity normally kicks in only after creation.

The RAW does not explicitly state every little detail in every single place in the book where it may crop up. Otherwise the book would be well over a thousand pages thick. But I assure you that it's perfectly "legal" for a GM to apply rarity to character creation. I don't know of any GMs who don't. If you don't believe me, feel free to ask around on the FFG forums how other GMs run their games.

aclarkbr90 wrote:If the issue is that you want me to only spend my 1500 true starting credits based on creation rules, and then the additional 1507 based on post creation rules, then I'll just switch around my obligation so that I use the full bonus on credits to cover the rarer items. Does that work?

No, that doesn't work. I've told you, at least three times now, that rarity does apply. You have two choices. You either accept what the GM (me) has told you regarding what is and isn't allowed in this game (without continuing to quote the rules book at me, especially since said book does not contradict what I've said; if you can point me to where it says in clear black and white that "rarity does not apply during character creation" then you might just might, have a valid argument), or you can decide that this game isn't for you because you cannot abide by GM rulings that you disagree with.

aclarkbr90 wrote:If you could link me to something with clearer guidelines on your house rules for equipment, it would make this a lot easier.

Perhaps, perhaps not. The most basic problem is that you tried something, I told you that you can't do that in this Far Orbit game (note carefully the emphasis), you asked why, and I gave you an explanation. That should have been the end of that discussion. Question asked and answered, GM ruling delivered. Everything after that is a player arguing with the GM, which isn't something that is advised when the GM has been running RPGs for 38 years (yes, I'm pretty old for a gamer), and the FFG system since it was in beta.

aclarkbr90 wrote:Or if you could propose some sort of armament that would play to Gwarm's strengths, I'd appreciate it. I'm just having trouble finding anything based on the rarity limitation.

Fair enough. I can only offer two choices. The first is that you forget about your build's talents, for now, and just use the gear that you can get until you can get gear better suited to the build. You're not the first, nor last, player to run into this sort of problem. The second, and perhaps less satisfactory option, is to rebuild the character with a different specialization (and perhaps career), so that the starting restrictions don't feel so onerous to you.

If you were creating a sniper build, you'd see some of the same problems, because the best weapons for such a build also happen to be rare (for good reason). But a sniper can make do with just an off-the-rack rifle. Far from ideal, but can be made to work. For your build it's problematic, because as you point out, your talents are pretty wasted using standard weapons. I think that the real problem isn't your design (per se), or the limitations of starting characters in this particular game. I think it's that you have too high expectations of what you should be able to do with your build right from day one. The build is not suited to the situation you find yourself in. It's a build that requires time to become effective. Most players would simply rebuild to something that they can play without issues from the start. Some specs, like Heavy, are best taken much later on by a player, when their character has earned enough experience and wealth to make it effective. I'm thinking that starting with the spec is not really all that good an idea.

aclarkbr90 wrote:
Plasma grenades are not an item that you would have been allowed to carry into StarForge station (even shadowports have some rules).


Why would plasma grenades in particular be banned? Are all grenades banned?

Actually, they all are. As is carrying any long gun (rifle). You can own them, but cannot bring them into the station. Station security checks and confiscates them, to be returned when you leave.

aclarkbr90 wrote:SWRPG uses the restricted mechanic to indicate which items are generally illegal.

The key word in your sentence is "generally". I think you missed the fact that localities may have restrictions that are tighter than what the "book" gives in general. There are Core planets in which carrying any firearm is prohibited. Oh, and please stop quoting the book at me, especially since you don't fully understand what is and isn't "allowed" by the book.

aclarkbr90 wrote:It surprises me that a Shadowport would be more restrictive than standard Imperial rules. Obviously, they wouldn't allow open carry, but most spaceports would have basic security measures for the secure transport of deadly weapons. Most likely this would include minor disassembly or deactivation, secure packaging, and transport through anti-explosive containers. The added costs of the security review for the rifle and the grenades could explain why Gwarm's d100 starting cash is so low (I rolled a 7 :( ).

Ah, I see that you do understand the open-carry issue. But what you don't get is that it's easier for said authorities to simply ban the carry of such weapons, even if "locked up", than hassle with safety procedures that criminals will take as a challenge to try to get around. On StarForge station, you can buy most anything. But you can't walk out of the store with it. It's delivered to your ship. If you came in on a ship with items that they don't allow to be carried, you either have to leave it on the ship, or have it confiscated (and pay the fine for violating the station rules).

I suppose you should be able to have plasma grenades on your character sheet. Just be aware that your character isn't actually carrying them. I'll concede that.
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Re: Gwarm Sabo (Far Orbit Project)

Postby ShadoWarrior » Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:19 pm

BTW, the station's rules are listed in an IC post near the bottom of page #1 of the IC thread. You should take some time to read through the entire IC thread, especially the first few and last pages, so that you can be more familiar with what to expect at StarForge, and what to expect as a new member of the ship's crew.
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Re: Gwarm Sabo (Far Orbit Project)

Postby aclarkbr90 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:21 pm

I think without the weapon set up, I'd rather try something different. I'll post an alternative grunt.
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