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FFG Star Wars Vehical Scale

Discussion of various rule systems and possible home rules

FFG Star Wars Vehical Scale

Postby Rakaydos » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:01 pm

As it stands in FFG Star wars, its a known abuse to put an autoblaster on a silluette 2 swoop bike to do starship scale damage at no size penalty to hit. At the same time, however, spacefighter combat is noted to be a battle of glass cannons, where expendable squads are nessisary to have any reasonable surviviability.

I feel the solution is to add an intermediate scale, a Vehical scale between personal and starship. Let this scale include all vehicals from silluette 2 up to 4- as sillouette 5 is where starships get 4 shield facings, as well as other changes to ship combat. This means that Gain the Advantage is a Vehical scale exclusive, whereas the special AoR starship fire modes are Starship scale only.

A vehical scale craft shooting at personal scale does damagex5, then add successes- this puts the autoblaster on par with the Eweb. A vehical shooting at a starship, however, only does half damage- that armor's too thick for blasters! (the same numbers are reversed for shooting a vehical scale craft, 5 damage to get through 1 vehical armor, 2 damage per normal damage of a starship) Breach reduces starship armor just fine, however, so missiles and torps are totally a thing.

To maintain the same surviviability relative to starships and personell, vehicals double their printed hull and system strain ratings. IE: a swoop bike goes from 2 hull to 4 hull, a tie bomber goes from 10 hull to 20 hull.
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Re: FFG Star Wars Vehical Scale

Postby ShadoWarrior » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:27 pm

Rakaydos wrote:To maintain the same survivability relative to starships and personnel, vehicles double their printed hull and system strain ratings. IE: a swoop bike goes from 2 hull to 4 hull, a tie bomber goes from 10 hull to 20 hull.

I'm fine with everything except this paragraph. What's the point of making heavy automatic weapons and grenades more damaging to vehicles (to better reflect SW canon) and then turning around and negating that by making the vehicles tougher to kill?
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Re: FFG Star Wars Vehical Scale

Postby Rakaydos » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:58 am

The point isnt to make vehicals easier to kill. the point is to make it harder for vehicals to instagib people.

At the same time though, the armor values didnt get doubed, so it's easier to do SOMETHING to a vehical even if it's almost as hard to kill as it aways was- an E web can scratch an Xwing's paint (15 base damage vs 3 vehical armor) instead of being laughed at (15 base vs 3 starship armor)

Part of the issue is that some low end speederbikes have hulls so low you could punch them and they'd explode. with the doubling, you'd at least need two good punches.
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Re: FFG Star Wars Vehical Scale

Postby ShadoWarrior » Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:08 pm

The flip-side is that doubling the hulls of starfighters and walkers is a bad idea. It'll make scout walkers almost impossible to kill before they cause a TPK, and it unbalances space combat.
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Re: FFG Star Wars Vehical Scale

Postby Rakaydos » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:06 pm

ShadoWarrior wrote:The flip-side is that doubling the hulls of starfighters and walkers is a bad idea. It'll make scout walkers almost impossible to kill before they cause a TPK, and it unbalances space combat.


now that I'm home again...

"Impossible to kill" by who?
vehical vs vehical will be slower, but a rising tide lifts all ships- unless you're relying on an alpha strike to kill it before it acts, the battle should still break the same way.

Vehical vs Personal? the only change from before is the walker's damage and soak got halved- a personal gun does twice the damage it used to (if it could at all before) vs twice the hull.

Same deal for starship- this is strictly a nerf to vehicals, despite the doubling of hull and system strain.
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Re: FFG Star Wars Vehical Scale

Postby Yepesnopes » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:23 am

Rakaydos wrote:the point is to make it harder for vehicals to instagib people.


If my opinion count on this matter. I am personally totally fine with this. Why anyone has to have chances of surviving when hit by a vehicle scale weapon such as medium laser from a YT-1300?
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Re: FFG Star Wars Vehical Scale

Postby Rakaydos » Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:17 am

Yepesnopes wrote:
Rakaydos wrote:the point is to make it harder for vehicals to instagib people.


If my opinion count on this matter. I am personally totally fine with this. Why anyone has to have chances of surviving when hit by a vehicle scale weapon such as medium laser from a YT-1300?

IF you want to lower the separation between vehical and starship so freighters are starships, that's fine- the issue is more on the low end, where a sprreder bike (which as a sillouette 2 craft, can hit people with no penalty) firing an autoblaster is doing twice the damage of an E web, before successess.

With this change, the autoblaster is EXACTLY the same base damage as the eweb, trading pierce and whatnot for a higher damage scaing.
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Re: FFG Star Wars Vehical Scale

Postby Yepesnopes » Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:51 am

Not allowing to mount an autoblaster in silhouette 2 vehicles is a smaller change (less disruptive on the RAW) than reshaping the whole vehicle damage system.

Note that I am not judging if the current damage vehicle damage system is ok. For example, there are many instances in the EU (its validity is another subject of debate for me) where personal scale blaster fire is able to take down or damage vehicles of even silhouette 3. Briefly, I am not against a revisit of the the vehicle scale damage.
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Re: FFG Star Wars Vehical Scale

Postby Rakaydos » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:44 am

Yepesnopes wrote:Not allowing to mount an autoblaster in silhouette 2 vehicles is a smaller change (less disruptive on the RAW) than reshaping the whole vehicle damage system.

Note that I am not judging if the current damage vehicle damage system is ok. For example, there are many instances in the EU (its validity is another subject of debate for me) where personal scale blaster fire is able to take down or damage vehicles of even silhouette 3. Briefly, I am not against a revisit of the the vehicle scale damage.

Indeed, the reduction of effective armor is one of the secondary changes, as it would allow a breach 1 missile to do more than scratch the paint of a sil 3/4 craft.
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Re: FFG Star Wars Vehical Scale

Postby ennervance » Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:56 pm

Well how about this - we leave the vehicle damage systems exactly as-is, with the understanding if we start firing missile launchers at light freighters, we want them to be more effective than currently? I'm with Yepes here, moving all that around has all sorts of implications that I think we don't need to get into.
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Re: FFG Star Wars Vehical Scale

Postby Rakaydos » Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:17 pm

ennervance wrote:Well how about this - we leave the vehicle damage systems exactly as-is, with the understanding if we start firing missile launchers at light freighters, we want them to be more effective than currently? I'm with Yepes here, moving all that around has all sorts of implications that I think we don't need to get into.

...just wait for the Whisper Base group to start joyriding the swoops that have 50 damage laser cannns on them. :p

...or nerf them now to "only" 25...
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Re: FFG Star Wars Vehical Scale

Postby ennervance » Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:40 pm

Rakaydos wrote:
ennervance wrote:Well how about this - we leave the vehicle damage systems exactly as-is, with the understanding if we start firing missile launchers at light freighters, we want them to be more effective than currently? I'm with Yepes here, moving all that around has all sorts of implications that I think we don't need to get into.

...just wait for the Whisper Base group to start joyriding the swoops that have 50 damage laser cannns on them. :p

...or nerf them now to "only" 25...


I don't plan to be in that game, so it's no concern of mine. :)

Though, running speeder bike battles in the jungles just scream a) high chance of horrible accidents and b) official notice of activity that's supposed to be kept low-key.
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